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Season 3 Episode 9 — When E-Bikes Become Motorcycles: The Gray Areas of Electric Transportation

  • Trail Rep for the Fraser Valley Mountain Bike Association, Founding Member of the Mission Community Cycling Coalition, former bike-shop owner, and also motorcycle enthusiast Rocky Blondin reveals how the once-clear distinction between motorized and non-motorized vehicles has become dangerously blurred. 

    Release Date: September 10, 2025

  • Transcript: Season 3, Episode 9 – When E-Bikes Become Motorcycles: The Gray Areas of Electric Transportation with Rocky Blondin. Sept. 10, 2025

    Peter Ladner: 0:07

    Welcome to Bike Sense, the BC Cycling Coalition's podcast, where we talk about all things related to active transportation advocacy in BC. I'm your host, peter Ladner, chair of the Board of the BC Cycling Coalition. I hope you enjoy the show. It's not all roses in electric mobility land was a sentence that came to me from today's guest, rocky Blunden, telling stories about issues of e-bikes and e-scooters and irresponsible cycling behavior. You may have heard about the 12-year-old cyclist who killed a pedestrian in Calgary. You may have seen gangs of 14-year-olds on e-bikes and e-scooters behaving somewhat recklessly in a town near you. You may have heard about the UK police impounding e-bikes that are actually not e-bikes they're just motorcycles in disguise. In disguise, and Rocky Blundin is the trail rep for the Fraser Valley Mountain Bike Association and a founding member for the Mission Community Cycling Coalition, so he straddles both the mountain bike issues related to this topic and the ones in the cities. Welcome, rocky. Hi Peter, thanks for having me the cities.

    Rocky Blondin: 1:43

    Welcome Rocky. Hi Peter, thanks for having me.

    Peter Ladner: 1:45

    So, before we start, I just want to ask you what was your latest bike ride that you've done?

    Rocky Blondin: 1:55

    Last night Fraser Valley Mountain Bike Association had a social ride here in Mission up on Bear Mountain, so I rode to the hills and did some trails in light rain with about 30 or 40 others.

    Peter Ladner: 2:02

    Very nice, yeah, right around the same time I was at the opening ride for the Granville connector in Vancouver.

    Rocky Blondin: 2:08

    Oh fun.

    Peter Ladner: 2:09

    How many bikes do you own? Honestly straight to the point here 11.

    Rocky Blondin: 2:16

    Whoa.

    Peter Ladner: 2:19

    That's just you, I have six.

    Rocky Blondin: 2:22

    There's 11 in my garage. Your wife has the other five, my wife has two, my son has two and my other son has one. I don't know if that adds up to 11, but I'm pretty sure there's 11 down there.

    Peter Ladner: 2:33

    Okay, so you qualify for the podcast I I it full disclosure.

    Rocky Blondin: 2:38

    I used to own a bike shop. I got caveat that that I owned a bike shop up until 2023 and therefore comes with the territory you kind of have to as a business practice.

    Peter Ladner: 2:46

    So oh, okay. So I was going to ask you how you got involved with cycling advocacy.

    Rocky Blondin: 2:53

    Uh, that is a good question. So I started mountain biking in 2003,. Give or take, my college roommate dragged me up to SFU and then I found out there was a group working on those trails, got interested in what that meant, I went to their AGM and sat down. It was my first AGM I'd ever been to for any organization. I was in my early 20s and they said at the end of the meeting they were looking for extra board members. They said, well, we need a couple more board members so we're giving away a hat.

    Rocky Blondin: 3:19

    Anybody want a free hat? I said, well, that sounds great, I'll take a free hat. So I signed up for the board, not having no idea what that meant, and I quickly became a board member of the Burnaby Mountain Bike Association. And from that point forward I've been on the board of the Burnaby Mountain Bike Association, involved with the Tri-Cities Off-Road Cycling Association and now here in Mission with the Fraser Valley Mountain Biking Association. And through that affiliation I got pulled into call it urban cycling advocacy. The city of Mission formed a cycling task force and my name was on the list of people to pester to join that to figure out where to put bike lanes and such in our community.

    Peter Ladner: 3:59

    Now you have a special status in my heart and mind because you're a podcast fan. You approached us about this podcast and you mentioned that, as a result of listening to this podcast, your wife, I believe, was going to, or would like to, start a chapter of Cycling Without Age, taking elderly people around in trash hos. Is that happening?

    Rocky Blondin: 4:21

    Yeah, I feel a bit of first-time caller, long-time listener here, and so we've listened to the podcast on and off and one of the episodes did inspire us to investigate what that looked like. That community has been welcoming to learn about and my wife's taking the lead there. Cheryl she's looking into opening a chapter here next year. They did caution, all the challenges associated costs and logistics, so she's working through those, but it's looking promising and it just sounds wonderful because it resonated with me. My mom died a couple of years ago and had some cognitive decline and all she really wanted in her elder years was to to ride a bike again, and I would have loved for that program to exist. If I could have taken my mom for a bike ride, it would have basically, yeah, made her year.

    Peter Ladner: 5:09

    So to do that for others would be wonderful. Why did you contact me?

    Rocky Blondin: 5:15

    So I reached out because I'm working on an awareness advocacy campaign contained within electric mobility awareness advocacy campaign contained within electric mobility. I'm seeing a common element between what challenges related to e-scooters and e-bikes and they overlap so you can almost capture the whole problem within without identifying each element. And it amounts to. Historically, we had a very clear delineation between a motorized thing and a non-motorized thing. So you had, if it had an engine like a dirt bike, it was a motorized thing. If non-motorized thing, so you had, if it had an engine like a dirt bike, it was a motorized thing. If it was a pedal bike, it was different.

    Rocky Blondin: 5:50

    And it's only with electric mobility that those lines have crossed over, and it's especially with e-bikes because a pedal assist class one, e-bikes is treated in our, in bc, uh, as a cycle, as a bicycle, it's not any different. So you can ride on trails, you can ride in bike paths, and so that's the legal framework around. It Sounds great, I support that and think it's wonderful. However, that opened kind of the fox into the henhouse and now electric motors of bigger and more powerful means are going on the trails, are going into bike lanes and, like you talked in the intro about motorcycles couching themselves as e-bikes. When I encounter one of these devices that shouldn't be where it is, the first thing out of their mouth is I say well, that's a motorcycle, you shouldn't be here. And they go no, it's an e-bike and it's an electric motorcycle, but it's the first thing.

    Peter Ladner: 6:40

    So where would you draw the line between motorized and non-motorized?

    Rocky Blondin: 6:48

    So for me and that's where e-scooters and e-bikes do have a bit of a delineation E-bikes it's pedal assist, only 32 kilometers an hour, max 500 watts, and those are the regulations that the provincial government has put onto trails and for most bike paths. I think this is where the regulatory environment is really confusing, because the off-road use and the on-road use rules don't overlap. They don't overlap perfectly, and so it creates gray areas.

    Peter Ladner: 7:18

    Why, then, is it possible to sell an illegal e-bike? I've seen these ones with the little faux pedals sticking out that I don't even know if they even move, but they're supposed to make it look like an e-bike, I think. And yet it's all souped up and way over the limits you just described.

    Rocky Blondin: 7:35

    Yeah, funny enough, that problem is, I think, as old as time, because I remember as a kid gas-powered mopeds having little pedals hanging off the sides, so they were low power motorized vehicles, couching themselves as something else, and the pedals were purely decorative. So that's not actually new, that the means of powering it it can be, you know, gasoline, it can be electric, it could be a nuclear reactor, it's all the same. Outcome here it's that that's a motorized machine and it shouldn't be where it's going. And but the e-bikes being allowed, there is the thing that's now blurted because you, you're letting that person with pedals and a motor in. Why can't I go?

    Peter Ladner: 8:14

    why does it matter?

    Rocky Blondin: 8:16

    um, so I can. I could speak to the trail side and then my urban environment side. So I live in a suburban environment. Um, we've got e-scooters, the gangs we talked about, rolling around teenagers everywhere. I think it's one part. Wonderful, and then also terrifying when they're doing 80 kilometers an hour on a sidewalk and cutting into traffic. That's terrifying 80.

    Peter Ladner: 8:35

    Wait, hang on 80 kilometers an hour on a sidewalk that actually happens are moving yes, okay not all that, they all come.

    Rocky Blondin: 8:45

    They all come in various power levels, um and so, but there's some. There's a one specific in our neighborhood, absolutely it's doing 80, 90 like yeah okay, so speeding, dangerous behavior, dangerous riding yeah, and the speeding comes with the inertia behind it.

    Rocky Blondin: 9:01

    You've got a machine and a person doing a lot of you know, uh, got a lot of power there, and so they can hurt themselves and others. Um, so that's on the urban side. And then we've got, um, these things are normally called surrounds or, you know, commonly called surrounds, but it's an electric motorcycle or electric dirt bike and we see those running around the city parks. We built a pump track here for cyclists and they're riding the pump track and endangering the kids that are using that, because now it's a motorcycle that can land on a kid who's on a scooter. It's it's a mismatched use. You typically don't want, you know, you don't want your kid playing in traffic. You don't want a motorcycle on a pump track. That's a bad idea and it is illegal. That's explicitly forbidden on the science, but people are doing it so if it's illegal, what sort of is there?

    Peter Ladner: 9:44

    Does anybody ever go to a bike shop and say, what are you doing with that bike? Or, like they did in the UK, do the police go around and grab these bikes and take them away and pound them or confiscate them in some way?

    Rocky Blondin: 9:56

    Here in Mission I'll speak to that. So our community has gone on the record. The CAO has stated that the RCMP won't enforce e-scooter and e-bike regulations because they're too busy dealing with other things. So it's a case where the you know from call it management directive is that's not a crime we're worth pursuing. But then it's also, I don't think historically we've had a lot of enforcement in these areas because you know, when I was young, friends of mine would ride their dirt bikes around town.

    Rocky Blondin: 10:26

    We lived in a rural part of Langley. You typically didn't worry about police. You were far more concerned about social enforcement. I think that's actually a huge component that's kind of missing today where, if you understand what the social norms are we were more concerned about getting caught by somebody's mom on the dirt bike than we were by the police. Norms are we were more concerned about getting caught by somebody's mom on the dirt bike than we were by the police. And if those social norms are kind of clear, if that scooter is okay on the sidewalk because it's low power, low speed, or if that bike is an e-bike with pedal assist and all the power limits and accepted where it's supposed to go, then it'll be okay. Then people can identify that and be okay with it and, conversely, criticize somebody who's not a pedestrian on the sidewalk and say, hey, you're not supposed to be here, but right now the pedestrian on the sidewalk doesn't know the rules. The RCMP honestly have had a hard time understanding the rules. I've met several officers that aren't clear on the legislation.

    Peter Ladner: 11:19

    So, rocky, you talk about social norms, but where do these norms come from? Do people, are they expected to be educated in? I don't know school about rules of the road, is it something? There's no driver education or testing because these vehicles are all unlicensed and uninsured. How does somebody learn what they should and shouldn't do?

    Rocky Blondin: 11:42

    Great question. I'm not a sociologist so I will do a poor job of answering, but in my opinion I see this through parenting and the like and it amounts to a lot of the challenges with youth on these devices, amounts to parents that have purchased them for them and kind of just unlocked them with them and said all right off, you go without any boundaries. And that's not critical of the parents, it's just an observation that social norms you know culturally I mentioned before about. You know I was worried about getting caught by my friend's mom on the dirt bike. You know the parents created that social norm for our teenage community and then we as adults do for each other too.

    Rocky Blondin: 12:20

    I talk to my friends about oh, you're doing what with your e-bike? Oh, that doesn't sound right. There too I talked to my friends about oh, you're doing what with your e-bike? Oh, that doesn't sound right. And I, you know a sour look on my face will indicate just the emotions contained within and my friend might adjust his behavior. And then if I encounter somebody on the sidewalk and I'm personally doing this trying to have that conversation I did it with a person on a gravel path in a park on an electric motorcycle. This thing looked like a Honda street bike and I had the conversation. It's a tough conversation. It requires me to say hey man, can you stop for a second? I want to talk to you about what you're doing, and what you're doing isn't legal and it's not right. And he refuted it. He didn't agree with my perspective, told me it was an e-bike, told me he was allowed to do it. Told me the RCMP had told him it was okay.

    Peter Ladner: 13:02

    Do you think that he was just being devious, or did he actually believe all that?

    Rocky Blondin: 13:12

    I genuinely think he was telling the truth when he said the RCMP accepted what he was doing, because I've heard it myself from RCMP officers.

    Peter Ladner: 13:17

    Wait, they're okay with people going 80k down the sidewalks on an illegal e-bike.

    Rocky Blondin: 13:22

    I'd suspect that any RCMP officers that saw that happening would intervene. But this person was just on an electric motorcycle in a city park, traveling at low speeds, so therefore doing something that doesn't appear objectively problematic but is inherently illegal. Because you're riding a motorcycle in a city park If I took my Yamaha in there, it would stop me right away but because this thing has a plate on the back that says e-bike and is powered by a battery, they're acting and reacting differently.

    Peter Ladner: 13:51

    And was that person riding under 32 k's per hour?

    Rocky Blondin: 13:55

    Not with any technological enforcement. And that's the thing about an e-bike that is regulated to that speed. It's done through software and through a speed sensor and that device the device that I saw this gentleman on, could do 80, no problem, or more, I bet you. It could go 120.

    Peter Ladner: 14:12

    So you used to be in the business. I understand. It's not that hard to take the governors off these e-bikes and turn them into real motorcycles.

    Rocky Blondin: 14:22

    Now that I'm a former retailer, I can say Did you ever do that, Rocky? I've never done that. No, I don't own an e-bike or operate any of these things.

    Peter Ladner: 14:29

    but Do you know people who've done that?

    Rocky Blondin: 14:31

    Yes, and it's not hard. Oh, okay, yes, and it's not hard, okay, no, you just have the light of the speed sensor. Not that I'm teaching kids how to do this, but you just have to tell it the information it needs to know, and then you can unlock. Yes.

    Peter Ladner: 14:44

    So it sounds like the bike retailers are in on this game, like they're making money from selling these illegal e-bikes.

    Rocky Blondin: 14:51

    I'm glad you asked because I put a lot of thought into this aspect, being a former retailer, so I've heard people say, well, they shouldn't be selling these. They the colloquial they. The retailer is responsible to sell products that comply with the laws, and they're doing that. These aren't illegal devices. There's no law that says you can't sell an e-bike that has a power level. You just can't operate it in certain places. It can go out the door and be ridden on private property and it's legal. So that's, it's not an illegality question at the retail level.

    Rocky Blondin: 15:24

    And uh, also speaking from a retailer's perspective, it's difficult to make a go of a bike shop these days. Specialty retail is a hard thing to do and so you're going to have a hard time turning down a high margin sale that can help you keep the lights on for the betterment. If you, even if you feel that way and I talked to our bike shop last night at our social ride he agreed. He's like these things are a problem. They're breaking our bike hoists. We can't, they can't facilitate a big e-bike in the shop because they're going to injure their staff. So it it's. It's having these external issues and that's not reconciled in in what's happening.

    Peter Ladner: 16:00

    So I want to go back to the parents, because you said I asked you a question where would the social norms be imbued in riders? You said well, the parents get in these bikes, they should? I guess it's implicit. They should tell them out of be careful. Here's what you're supposed to do. But a lot of parents probably don't care, or might well they should care, because their kid could die. But let's say they don't even know what the rules are. Who would pass on that knowledge or who would share that knowledge? You said the police don't want to deal with it. I know there's some education at schools, but I don't know how thorough that is.

    Rocky Blondin: 16:35

    Speaking, I got two school-aged children. I don't think there's a lot of this being talked about. When I went through school, we had a bike rodeo. I learned my hand signals in grade four and they still hold true today, and they don't have that education in schools anymore.

    Peter Ladner: 16:51

    Well, that's not quite true. I know hub cycling has been paid by the province to go and do that in grades three and four in certain schools in certain cities or towns around the province.

    Rocky Blondin: 17:00

    I was just about to say we as an external group have gone in to do this, but it's not curriculum, it's not like an element of a given piece of a program. It's if a teacher is interested, they can contact the local advocacy group, like hub, like the Community Cycling Coalition, and we will then go and do some of this stuff. Yeah, now.

    Peter Ladner: 17:21

    I know you've been talking to other organizations about this elsewhere in the province. What's the discussion and what solutions have you come up with?

    Rocky Blondin: 17:30

    and so that that came from. On the mountain bike side, we saw impacts on trails. We're seeing these electric dirt bikes. They're tearing up the trails and we were really upset about that locally. Uh, we kind of reached out to other stakeholders in the province and found out the it's happening everywhere in varying amounts. The worst was in Kamloops. We came to learn they had a real bad case of the electric mobility blues, um, damaging public facilities, a really bad accident with two kids on these things that got maimed. So it was really rampant there and so we talked about okay, well, we all identify what the problem is. And to your point now, what? What's the solution For us? On the trail side, we're talking to provincial land managers talking about they've established the legal regulations for what an e-bike is an e-bike and what isn't, but it's not clear and it's not clearly marked.

    Peter Ladner: 18:21

    So we want to improve, improve signage, things like that so at the entrance to a trail, I would say non-legal e-bikes only, or limited to something or other exactly, and I've seen elements of this down in places like in arizona on trails.

    Rocky Blondin: 18:35

    So here we're looking to do more of that where we make it clear what is and isn't acceptable. You know, 32 kilometers an hour, 500 watts, that's it, no throttles. And then hikers reading that sign can see something that's breaking those rules and say something. If you see something, say something. And now if they know the rules, that'll help.

    Peter Ladner: 18:55

    So we're looking to improve kind of that social and real enforcement, although in the forest real enforcement's few and far between you're suggesting that the enforcement in off road it pretty much has to be by peers and other people out in the trail. There's not going to be some park warden or police officer wandering around giving out tickets no, those people do exist.

    Rocky Blondin: 19:14

    There's jobs within BC Parks and Rec Sites and Trails that do enforcement, but there's so few in number covering so much area, they'll never solve this problem. We're asking for that. We're also asking and this is the piece I think super important is, we can get a government, either the federal or provincial government, to make changes to what's legal for sale. Because you asked about is it the retailer's fault? No, is it the manufacturer's fault? No, still complying with the laws, although many bike companies aren't. By the way, they're putting stickers on that are lying because they say it's 250 watts power and it's not, because they advertise a torque number that's way in excess of that. And torque and power are correlated through RPM, like it's just formulas. And so if somebody was enforcing the manufacturers to put real numbers on these things, then it would have a decal that states what it is. That would be a step.

    Rocky Blondin: 20:08

    But what I'm proposing and advocating for provincially is that they make it very clear what's safe and legal. So on the e-scooter side, they've made a designation for a 25-kilometer-an-hour limit and a power limit I think it's 250 watts, but I'm not 100% certain and that's in the province's proposed legislation that the city of Mission, as one example, is chewing on ratifying here locally. If they did that, that's great. But how do you know something's compliant? It needs a big green sticker on it. Shiny can't peel it off. This thing is cool and it can ride on a sidewalk and it can be operated by a teenager. That's okay. Everything else you see doesn't have a sticker. Good, it's not okay. And, like you were talking about in the UK, that'll make it really clear to start dealing with these things, confiscating them. If it's on a sidewalk, take it away.

    Peter Ladner: 20:55

    That's one thing that could happen, but the other part of it would be if it's not a legal e-bike, it should be licensed and insured, correct, both on and off-road. Yeah, is that going to happen? Does that ever happen?

    Rocky Blondin: 21:10

    That would require enforcement. On-road. You've got licensing, but you do have then federal Transport Canada regulations you have to comply with for a road vehicle. You have to have headlights, turn signals, all the stuff that say a motorcycle would have, and then it would have to be safety rated. So I don't know if there's a legal path to getting an e-bike to become a motor vehicle. I'd suspect not, but that's plausible. On the off-road side I can say that an e-bike that exceeds the power levels of a Class 1 e-bike can absolutely ride on dirt bike trails. That's fully okay, and they would just have to get an ORB plate just like a dirt bike.

    Peter Ladner: 21:44

    Okay, I wanted to talk for a moment about rentals, because there's a lot of e-bike, shared e-bikes, now shared scooters. People rent them and I have heard stories about kids getting on these bikes. I know from when I used to ride a motorcycle that the first 10 rides or something are that, whereas 80% of the serious accidents occur. People start to get a little false confidence and then they get stupid and they don't know what they're doing and off down they go. Um, is there anything that the renters people who are like the charity bikes or e-scooters is there any qualifiers for? If you want to pick one up, do you have to know anything about how to ride one of these things? Does anybody caution you not to go too fast or watch out for those big potholes with those tiny wheels, or whatever?

    Rocky Blondin: 22:34

    yeah, having rented. I've rented public e-bikes in Vancouver. It was a wonderful experience. My son and I bombed around downtown and had a great day. I think if you enforce and have that power limit and that speed limit, then you're also restricting the risk here that I think inherently comes with it when you learn to ride a motorcycle. I was given the advice that I stuck to to get a small one and I did, and now I've got a very big one and that's all fine and well. Um, but I didn't learn on that. And if you keep the power levels low, it keeps the weight low. That's the thing about a small motorcycle and a small e-bike is it's gonna have limited mass and therefore limited risk to others. If you crash into somebody with a 48 pound bike, it's probably not gonna do too much damage. If you crash into somebody with a 48-pound bike, it's probably not going to do too much damage. If you crash into somebody with a 120-pound thing, with a 200-pound rider there's a lot there and it's going to be a lot worse.

    Peter Ladner: 23:24

    And there's not just the physical damage. I know UBC researchers presented at our last AT conference the results of a study where they asked people for their perception of danger and discomfort in a bike. Separate a bike lane from different types of vehicles that are going by. And the one that was off the charts for discomfort and perceived danger and perhaps real danger was these false e-bikes that are actually motorcycles that are going so fast. So even if they're not actually hitting people, they're rattling people and maybe keeping them from wanting to go out in those bike lanes themselves.

    Rocky Blondin: 24:00

    Yeah, I see a version of that on the trails. When you're riding a mountain bike and ascending, so going uphill, you're moving pretty slow. You've got high gearing, except if you're on an e-bike, and so, as somebody on a regular bike is going uphill and then gets passed by an e-bike that can be doing 30 kilometers an hour uphill while I'm, you know, going eight, it's, it's upsetting, it's to the whoa, what's that? You get startled, yeah, and it does. It does take away from the experience, but that's a bit subjective. Um, the bike lane side, I could absolutely see that. It's that speed, delta, right, that's. What's upsetting is if you're moving at 10 kilometers an hour and something else is moving at 50, it's a lot to process. And if it's in close quarters I've seen those videos of semi-trucks passing people on bikes that are kind of being exposed to that risk and getting startled by it. As an avid cyclist, it's terrifying.

    Peter Ladner: 24:50

    Well, in some ways, this is a great problem to have. We've got more people out on active transportation, We've got kids actually moving around and getting exercise and not depending on their parents to drive them. We've got less congestion. We've got cleaner air all those good things. So I don't want to make it sound like this is all horrible, but it's pretty clear from talking to you that there are some issues that have to be dealt with.

    Rocky Blondin: 25:13

    I agree with exactly what you said. The three things that I kind of uh capture this with is electric mobility has been a blessing. Um, the two blessings I mainly see are democratized cycling. It really kind of makes it accessible. You could flatten hills. When I used to sell e-bikes I'd say, hey, push this button, the hill's gone and so now you can ride a hill so much easier. I love when I see a 70 year old grandfather riding out with his 20 year old grandson, like, and they, they can do the same trails together. What a, what an amazing thing and the husbands and wives too.

    Peter Ladner: 25:46

    Whichever one is the weaker rider gets to come along and stay and keep up I've experienced that exactly with my wife.

    Rocky Blondin: 25:53

    Yeah, we did e-bikes and it was the great equalizer, even though she's a very good cyclist. What it did is it just created a leveled up playing field. So, yeah, I couldn't agree more. And it also provides motorized mobility at a fraction of the energy. So like, if you go to run errands in your car, you're talking about 75 kilowatts. You can do the same thing on something like this for 0.75 kilowatts. So you can do the same thing on something like this for 0.75 kilowatts. So we're 100x less energy and for a sustainable future, we have to reduce our energy load like this. It's just the way we have to go. So we've got the blessing.

    Rocky Blondin: 26:26

    Prior to this, you and I have talked about the curses, which are the other side of the coin. We're learning about the unintended consequences. They're dodging and weaving and they wear things out. Mostly, tires and trails like the tires wear out faster on these machines at a bike shop. They're going through. They're consuming more resources. It takes energy to do something as well as put the tires on everything.

    Rocky Blondin: 26:47

    And then the first thing out of an e-motor. It's created. This gray area this is the huge problem is now the first thing out of an e-motorcycle when they get caught doing something they shouldn't be is it's an e-bike, so that's, you know, part of the curse. And so the third thing is I look at the future, and the future is we can change the regulations. We've got some Like there's transportation regulations that exist. They just need to be modernized.

    Rocky Blondin: 27:12

    The policy being proposed here in Mission, that's a provincial policy. I think it's okay. It restricts to 16 years old for e-scooters and I don't think that's fair. I see 12-year-olds out on these things. That's awesome. This is better than them getting driven around in a car. They can and should be on a power and speed limited one. There's nothing wrong with that. But if it does 80 kilometers an hour, I don't put my 12-year-old on a motorcycle for a reason that's not going to end well.

    Rocky Blondin: 27:38

    So we can update the rules. We can make enforcement both legal and social enforcement easier to do with better indications. This thing's legal, this one's not, because as soon as there's a motor involved, it's a gray area. But let's clear up that gray area. Big green sticker, just like the eok for the hov lane for your electric car right. Big green sticker, eok in this bike lane, and then this can make it all sustainable. Then we can have, uh, the right things in the right places and be responsible with the use and the one thing you didn't mention was affordability too like, and freedom too.

    Peter Ladner: 28:14

    Those kids can now get around on their own, they've got agency in their own lives, and parents don't have to have numbers of cars and pay for all those trips. So it's a future we'd all love to see, but we've just got to figure out this thorn in the it's all roses future of e-bikes yeah, the last thing that, as a former retailer, I'll throw out is, um, that I.

    Rocky Blondin: 28:42

    I think the right to repair would be an important element here too. Um, a lot of these e-devices are being sold by websites, so e-commerce only, or, say, a big box retailer. You can go down to your local Walmart, for example, and get an electric mobility device, an e-scooter or an e-bike. You can get them at Best Buy even, and so that's all fine and well. You can't get it fixed there, and so what then ends up happening is that thing, a part, fails, they bring it to their local bike shop. They would bring it to me, and I can't get the part because there's no supply chain for it to me, and I can't get the part because there's no supply chain for it. I can't go to Best Buy to get a motor. So now they spent $2,000 on this thing, that the motor failed and it turned into a pumpkin. So I am of the opinion that if you can't fix these things, you can't sell them.

    Peter Ladner: 29:25

    Now does that mean that they shouldn't be allowed to sell something with a sealed box or with no parts? Or does it mean you're just advising people only go and get one at a bike store where they'll be able to fix it because they'll have parts, because it's a brand name?

    Rocky Blondin: 29:40

    My advice to anybody thinking of getting something like this is exactly that that go somewhere that can't be fixed, because then the part supply is available. I mean, if you do buy them online, typically there is a part supply there, but then you're fully in DIY country. You line, typically there is a parts supply there, but then you're fully in diy country. You don't have a local resource that can help you for a flat tire, dewire the motor, because sometimes you have to take all the wires out just to change a flat tire. Yeah, and it's um like. I talked to the bike shop last night. They did one tire on one e-scooter and they'll never do another one, because it was 14 bolts and wiring to get the wheel off, and now they inherit that liability, so they're not interested. So now you've got how do you fix it? You get a flat tire. That's, that's simple. That can happen now what wow?

    Rocky Blondin: 30:21

    so I think if you're going to sell them as a retailer, you should have the capacity to repair them. You don't have to take it there for repair. But if you aren't fixing them, then there you're creating a waste stream that then can't be fixed, and then this is just more batteries and more motors and more wheels into the world that just get thrown away because of flat tire or less.

    Peter Ladner: 30:41

    And if you're a prospective buyer, beware of the lure of the cheap online price or the ones in the lineup at, let's say, london Drugs, where they used to put them as an impulse buy in the lineup and support your local bike dealer, who's probably, as you said, struggling a little bit. Drugs, where they used to put them in the as an impulse buy in the lineup and but and support your local bike dealer, who's probably, as you said, struggling a little bit and needs the business and will be able to serve you better than the online cheap one I agree with that.

    Rocky Blondin: 31:04

    I will say and I used to tell my customers this not all big box bikes are created equal. They do sell some good ones too. That's not all bad, but they have the capacity to sell some really bad ones, versus that local bike shop typically will sell something that they can stand behind because they've got to fix it. It's going to show up eventually, come back with a brake adjustment. So they want something they can get parts for and it's not a nightmare.

    Peter Ladner: 31:27

    Rocky, how close are we to the green sticker?

    Rocky Blondin: 31:31

    Zero On a scale of one to ten. I'll go one because the idea is conceived, but I'm just getting out to a point. We had a provincial meeting on the trail side, um when you say provincial meeting, who comes to these meetings?

    Rocky Blondin: 31:44

    so the outdoor recreation council of british columbia, um, the who else was there? The mountain bike tourism association and then a couple of us as local trail advocates and we're having a zoom call on all right, this is a problem provincially. What are we going to do about it? We're talking about going to the ubcm and making some awareness there. Um, and so the green sticker idea is something I conceived as a response to that social enforcement thing.

    Rocky Blondin: 32:08

    And I think local places, a municipality or a trail association like the one I could volunteer for or that I do volunteer for, they could do that. Our city could be inspecting these devices and say, yeah, look, that's one that's compliant, it's speed limited, it's power limited, here's your decal. And then they're good to go. And our trail association could do the same thing. Hey, that's a pedal-assist e-bike, it's not going to hurt the trails thing. Hey, that's a pedal assist e-bike, it's not going to hurt the trails. Here's your sticker, your e-bike approved. So these are something we can do as a grassroots initiative to create that social enforcement. These laws don't hold water legally, but they're.

    Peter Ladner: 32:41

    They're that social piece, and then, ideally, the province or the federal government can do this at a manufacturer's level I love that you uh have so much confidence in social norms and peer enforcement and people looking out for the situation and just being good citizens, because it would be lovely if that would be a widespread practice and perhaps even solve this problem.

    Rocky Blondin: 33:07

    I'll say that comes from being in the forest. That's much more commonplace on the trails. That's where this whole notion came, because from 20 years of being a trail advocate I've noticed that the norms are socially created. There's no legal enforcement around, there's zero. So here in the urban setting you do have police to enforce things but, as I've been told by their management, they've got bigger fish to fry, so it's kind of being left to us anyways fish to fry, so it's kind of being left to us.

    Peter Ladner: 33:36

    Anyways, rocky, thanks so much for telling us all these stories and educating us to these problems and so on. Is there anything else you want to add?

    Rocky Blondin: 33:41

    I think we've covered the gamut. I'm really grateful A for your podcast, sharing this wisdom of all your guests, and I'm grateful to have this opportunity to talk about something I see as important. The thing I want to get in front of the tragedy I'm trying to stop is if an e-scooter with a youth on it gets hit by a car and killed, we'll see a reaction that kid's parents will react. There'll be a new law I call it Jimmy's Law but it's going to be a knee-jerk reaction to a real big tragedy and we can avoid that if we get in front of this, if we create the regulations. We have these discussions.

    Peter Ladner: 34:20

    Well, let's stay in touch and anything the BC Cycling Coalition could do to help you along, we'd be happy to do that. We're trying to get the RCMP to come out, the Highway Patrol to come out to our conference in Kimberley on September 10th to 12th to talk about their view of enforcement. The issue that we would, of course, want to raise with them was that safe passing distance enforcement and other things, but generally safety for vulnerable road users from whatever dangers are out there cars and trucks more particularly, obviously, but also, uh, bad cyclists and bad machinery, that excess power that's being used irresponsibly.

    Rocky Blondin: 34:55

    Yeah, ultimately, anything that exceeds the power levels. I call them for what they are they're motorcycles and these are motorcyclists. I'm a motorcyclist and therefore I'm advocating for people to be safe motorcyclists and respect everybody else.

    Peter Ladner: 35:08

    Thanks, rocky, great talking with you. Thank you, great talking with you. Thank you. You've been listening to Bike Sense, an original podcast from the BC Cycling Coalition. If you like the podcast, we'd be grateful if you could leave us a rating. On whatever platform you use, you can also subscribe, so you don't miss future episodes. If you have comments or suggestions for future episodes, email me at peterladner at bccyclingca. You can help us amplify BC Cycling Coalition's voice by simply becoming a free member at bccyclingca.


Season 3 Episode 8 - A Cycling Champion in a Pickup Truck Town

  • What does it take to transform a car-dependent small town into a place where cycling feels safe and accessible? Ruth Lloyd is finding out firsthand in Williams Lake, BC.

    As a returning resident to her hometown, Ruth experienced the stark contrast between places where active transportation was normalized, and her pickup-truck dominated community where, as in many small cities or towns, the highway consititutes Main Street. Rather than accepting the status quo, she co-founded Streets for All Williams Lake and began methodically building support for cycling infrastructure through creative advocacy.

    Ruth's approach blends journalistic storytelling with strategies such as lending an e-bike to the mayor to bring him onside. Now she's tackling an even bigger obstacle: provincial highways that create barriers within communities. 

    Find out more about Streets For All Williams Lake HERE.

    Release Date: August 19, 2025

  • Peter Ladner: 0:07

    Welcome to Bike Sense, the BC Cycling Coalition's podcast, where we talk about all things related to active transportation advocacy in BC. I'm your host, Peter Ladner, Chair of the Board of the BC Cycling Coalition. I hope you enjoy the show. We've all heard how small groups of dedicated people are the real agents of change in the world. Today's guest, in my opinion, is one of those people. Ruth Lloyd is a journalist in Williams Lake who seems to have unlimited energy to campaign for safer cycling in her community. I invited her on the podcast not just because I too, used to be a journalist in small town BC, but because I was bowled over by a few of her initiatives that really seemed to be moving the dial in Williams Lake. Today we're going to talk about those. Welcome, Ruth.

    Ruth Lloyd: 1:08

    Hi Peter, Thanks for having me. I feel like one of those people on the radio, a long-time listener, first-time caller.

    Peter Ladner: 1:16

    Well, I introduced you as a journalist, but that doesn't explain to me how you got into being an activist for cycling in Williams Lake. Can you tell us how that happened, how long have you lived there and what prompted you to get active?

    Ruth Lloyd: 1:31

    Well, I'm actually from Williams Lake originally. I grew up here and you know I was kind of born into the I don't know driving culture of Williams Lake. I took it for granted that driving was how you had to get around, though I did spend my childhood riding my bicycle around my neighborhood. That's how I spent my evenings and I loved it.

    Ruth Lloyd: 1:54

    And then I got away from it. And then I just moved away for university, lived other places and when I came back here it felt like Williams Lake was on the right track. And then I moved away again and I lived in a place where everything was close. I was walking and cycling to all my errands and then I moved back and wondered why can't we do that here?

    Peter Ladner: 2:20

    Do you have a vehicle? Do you have a F-150? Do you have a vehicle? Do you?

    Ruth Lloyd: 2:23

    have an F-150?. Oh well, we actually. Yes, I have a vehicle. I live a little bit out of town from the downtown and we have 20 acres, so we have a truck and we have another vehicle, but I prefer to bicycle if I can.

    Peter Ladner: 2:41

    Do you bicycle into work?

    Ruth Lloyd: 2:43

    Yes, I do.

    Peter Ladner: 2:45

    And then what happened?

    Ruth Lloyd: 2:50

    You discovered that it wasn't what it ought to be. Yeah, there's only a short stretch of highway that I have to take and then I can kind of get on side streets and go different ways. But I'd been living these other places where I was just so used to acting like a car, as you're supposed to able to move with traffic and kind of take it for granted that you could follow the rules and feel okay doing that. But unfortunately here drivers aren't used to seeing bikes on the road and acting in that way, and I had a lot of really negative experiences that left me wishing for safer infrastructure and I found myself breaking the rules way more than I normally would to make myself feel safer.

    Peter Ladner: 3:36

    What do you mean by breaking the rules?

    Ruth Lloyd: 3:38

    Riding on the sidewalk, having to sometimes take, yeah, just kind of choosing my route in a way that wouldn't you know, I'm kind of making connections via sidewalks and some other things that aren't necessarily how you're supposed to do it.

    Peter Ladner: 3:58

    Well, on a more positive note, you did a program with some of your counselors where you got them onto bikes to have that same experience. Tell us how that worked and what happened.

    Ruth Lloyd: 4:12

    Yeah, it was really great. It was in 2023, and we got a grant from Emotive BC and we do these electric vehicle grants, and so they opened it up that year for e-bikes as well. And so they opened it up that year for e-bikes as well and we thought that it would be really great to try and show people. It was kind of a combination you not only get to show your elected officials some of the experience of riding a bike in your community, but you also get to highlight how much an e-bike is an advantage in an area like ours.

    Ruth Lloyd: 4:48

    We have a lot of hills. We're in a valley, so it's really advantageous. Once you have an e-bike, you flatten out those hills and basically anyone can get around without, you know, getting too sweaty and out of breath. And we actually didn't just do councillors. We had our mayor, we had MLA Lauren Dirksen, our local provincial representative. We had some different leaders from community groups. We even had the Citizens on Patrol, community policing leader, lead our parade. He does a lot of work at the parade. Thousands of people come down to watch it and we had him out there riding around to do his work for the parade on e-bike to show off its advantages.

    Peter Ladner: 5:40

    So you managed to get an e-bike from somewhere with this grant and then you offered it to these people for 48 hours or something, or how did it work?

    Ruth Lloyd: 6:05

    He had it for. He didn't want to give it back actually, but he had it for over a week. He took it to City Hall for City Hall meetings, parked it right in the room in the chambers while they were meeting and he brought it to his gurdwara for his Sunday at the temple and then he yeah, he took it on rides. We would try and escort them on a ride so that we could film them. So at least part of the demonstration was filming them riding the bike and then we could do social media posts around it to help raise awareness. And some counselors or users just wanted to have it and then take some rides and they wanted to do their own videos. So it varied actually, but we worked in partnership with two local bike shops and they helped us out with Lampus.

    Peter Ladner: 6:57

    Were some or most of these people first time e-bike riders.

    Ruth Lloyd: 7:03

    I think it was probably two thirds or so. We actually did a dozen different community leaders on these bikes, so we had the M. Our MLA learned Dirksen. He had it. That was his first e-bike ride and he had it, for I think he had that bike for four days maybe. And he had it for I think he had that bike for four days maybe. And yeah, our mayor, he hadn't. He'd grown up riding a bike in India and then he came to Williams Lake in the 70s when he moved to Canada and he hadn't ridden a bike the whole time he lived here, and so then he got on this bike and he said it made him feel like a kid again. It was really fun.

    Peter Ladner: 7:46

    Oh, nice to hear it Now. You have also been very active in promoting I don't know whether I should say initiating getting an active transportation plan done for Williams Lake. Tell us about that.

    Ruth Lloyd: 8:03

    Yeah, I definitely can't take all the credit. We've had this amazing active transportation working group that was formed through the city transportation working group that was formed through the city. We were asking for the city to kind of lead something like an active transportation committee or working group. To look at that, because our city had had one in the past and so we wanted them to revive it and when they got that group together they were amazing. Everyone on that group is, you know, we have this passionate team and some of those people.

    Ruth Lloyd: 8:34

    We were out canvassing for people to fill out the survey during all the engagement sessions and we had the most responses on the survey that the city had ever seen and just really worked hard and so much input and positive engagement. It's been really great. We had, you know, quite a good turnout for our live in-person engagement session with the planners. It was really positive. But yeah, we just started asking for the city to apply for the provincial funding to do a transportation active transportation network plan and we had this great person at the city who was staff at the time. She applied. She's no longer with the city, so then it kind of was on pause. We kept kind of pushing and then they hired a consultant to kind of help move it forward again. And then urban systems came in and did the project and they did a great job.

    Peter Ladner: 9:40

    So it was definitely a team effort now you mentioned an active transportation advisor group or council or something, but when you say we are you part of an association. Do you have your own cycling advocacy society or organization, or is it just random citizens getting together?

    Ruth Lloyd: 9:58

    So the Active Transportation Working Group is a group that has a bunch of different stakeholders and I personally represent and one of the members of that group, but I'm also a representative from Streets for All, Williams Lake, which is the advocacy group that my friend and I co-founded.

    Peter Ladner: 10:19

    Streets for All Williams Lake. So that active transportation plan has passed. Is it now an official plan?

    Ruth Lloyd: 10:27

    Yeah, so the city has adopted it and it is part of the city's yeah active transportation. Well, it is the city's. They paid for it because it was partly paid for through a provincial grant that they applied for and then the city had to check in as well. So it's the city's active transportation network plan. They've adopted it and now they are currently working on a official community plan review and we're hoping that that will be integrated into it, so it will basically be embedded in ACP going forward.

    Peter Ladner: 11:07

    Now you haven't stopped at Williams Lake because I know that you've been involved in some way in a motion from I think it's one of your counselors to the North Central Local Government Association asking for the Ministry of Transportation and Transit to take the lead on active transportation infrastructure on highway rights-of-way. First of all, what is the North Central Local Government Association?

    Ruth Lloyd: 11:37

    So the local governments in the province have different groups and North Central Local Government Association is the group representing local governments within the kind of northern half. In fact, geographically Williams Lake is not actually quite in the north but definitely fit into that demographic. So the North Central Local Government Association gets together and has a summit every year. Local leaders get together, talk about issues in the north and then a lot of those issues will then be brought forward to the Union of BC Municipalities Conference which happens every year in the fall. So that's all of the local government leaders meeting with provincial leaders every year.

    Peter Ladner: 12:34

    And you brought a motion. Tell us what the motion is.

    Ruth Lloyd: 12:37

    So one of the big barriers in a lot of communities, and absolutely especially in the north and central parts of the province, is the highway infrastructure, and so these highways comprise major throughfares. Sometimes they're the main streets of town, sometimes they create. In Williams Lake, we have Highway 20 and Highway 97, which divide different sections of our community and because those are provincial infrastructure, they cannot be changed by the municipality. So, even though we've got this active transportation network plan, we want to create a more safe, connected active transportation network that's going to help everyone get around, safely access all the amazing things we have, like our crazy, awesome mountain bike trails. But unfortunately they're all divided by these highways and the highways create major barriers, like in Williams Lake.

    Ruth Lloyd: 13:45

    Highway 20 is a separation between the west side of the community and the main downtown and the north side, so we've got mountain bike networks on the west side and the south side that you would need to use Highway 20 to get to if you were going to get there by bicycle, but most people feel very unsafe using that and unfortunately the city can't change that. The province has to leave that. We're asking for the province to take the lead on putting in active transportation infrastructure within those highway right-of-ways within municipalities have you tried a direct ask to the regional ministry official saying let's do this?

    Peter Ladner: 14:36

    Do they have the power to put some active transportation infrastructure alongside or related to the highway right away?

    Ruth Lloyd: 14:47

    Well, theoretically that would be who would do it, but they're not doing and I don't know why it's not being implemented. In terms of previously, the province had set a mandate the ministry of transportation it was the ministry of transportation infrastructure at the time for active transportation infrastructure to be a priority, but regionally we didn't really see that play out and there wasn't any follow-through in terms of creating, you know, ensuring that paving is happening, that ensures good, wide shoulders that are kept clean for active transportation, just minor things that would really enable it. But the counselor at the meeting with the city had just been discussing the active transportation network plan. The city was saying you know, we put all this money into it. This councillor said we've got this plan. How are we going to make sure that, you know, these highways don't continue to be this major obstacle for us? And maybe we should put a resolution forward, and so she drafted this resolution.

    Ruth Lloyd: 16:05

    It's Councillor Joan Flasspuller and she drafted this resolution. She's talked to the local representatives and so she has a better understanding of what the local ministry of transportation representatives can and can't do, what their barriers are, and so I think she was hoping to try and get that kind of push from the province, provincial level, to try and get everyone to say, look, these are basically our main streets. You know, you've got Townsend Burns, like we've got 14 June, you've got Houston, you've got all these. You know, chatwin, these are places where the highway is straight through the community and, you know, creates this major obstacle that really limits people in feeling safe, this major obstacle that really limits people in feeling safe.

    Peter Ladner: 17:01

    So you came to the conclusion that it would much help your local manager to have direction from on high to make this happen, and I would confidently say that this is the feeling of many, many communities in BC who feel frustrated. Some of them seem to depend on the passion of that local manager for cycling or not for cycling, which is a kind of a flimsy basis for building out AT infrastructure around the province. And we often hear that if there's a passion from the minister or the senior officials in the ministry that send down the ranks, that it will enable people to do this a lot more. So good luck with that and I hope it gets to the UBCM which I think is in September in Victoria this year, and the BC Cycling Coalition would like to be there.

    Ruth Lloyd: 17:48

    Yeah, the City of Williams Lake is going to put that resolution, a resolution forward that basically asks the province to take the leap and help make sure that active transportation infrastructure is being integrated into these municipalities. When you've got the highway going through town going through a pandemic.

    Peter Ladner: 18:10

    But you obviously felt that having that request amplified by support from all the other municipalities in that local government association would be helpful. So you've done that interim step. Has it gone to that association? Have they approved it?

    Ruth Lloyd: 18:25

    My understanding is it was passed and now and that's hopefully going to spur something in the province. But you can only try and hopefully the province will start to listen.

    Peter Ladner: 18:40

    So you've been doing this for several years? How many years now in Williams Lake?

    Ruth Lloyd: 18:45

    Well, I moved back here in 2020. And I guess we started now. I think we might have started Space for L Williams Lake in 2022.

    Peter Ladner: 18:59

    So let's say you've been doing this for three years. How are you feeling? Are you making you feel like you're making progress, that it's worth it, that you're going to get somewhere in the end?

    Ruth Lloyd: 19:11

    Oh, this is such a good question. I mean, what advocate doesn't have days where they're what am I doing? Is this even making any difference? And other days you think, oh man, this is so exciting. I mean, there's been great, great community building that's resulted, and I think that that matters. We might not have seen any actual difference in terms of there's no bike lanes happening yet, but we have. You know, we we've done a lot of things that I think have helped up the profile. I think that the response the community gave to the city you know we had over 700 people respond to our serving and that was the most the city's ever had so, um, it was, yeah, really satisfying to see that happen, and I think that the city's now has heard that this is something people want to see, especially with the mountain biking culture. Young people are out riding the trails and then parents want to know that if their kid wants to go for a mountain bike ride and they drop them off at the top of the trail, they can ride back to their house safely.

    Peter Ladner: 20:30

    So have you been working with the mountain? Does the mountain biking people have their own association?

    Ruth Lloyd: 20:36

    They do. They're the Williams Lake Cycling Club and yeah, they. You know we've tried to try and communicate and support what they're doing and they've tried to support some of what we're doing. And you know we have definitely a parallel interest on that and you know we have definitely a parallel interest on that.

    Peter Ladner: 20:54

    Well, speaking of parallel interest, you are coming to our Regional Active Transportation Summit in Kimberley on September 11th and 12th and you're going to be having an opportunity there for people who want to talk about getting their communities more motivated. So do you have any thoughts?

    Ruth Lloyd: 21:22

    Can you share any more about that and what you hope to come out of that?

    Ruth Lloyd: 21:27

    Yeah well, I'm really excited to get down there and get together again with all the people who are excited about active transportation.

    Ruth Lloyd: 21:32

    It's really just so rewarding to share knowledge and meet people who are doing the same things or similar things and share information. And when I went to the one that was last year, it was that New West it was amazing, it was so great. But I really felt like I wanted to be able to connect more with other advocates, because we just started this group in williams lake, we didn't necessarily know what we're doing. We just wanted to try and support safer cycling and safer active transportation for everyone, and I guess I was hoping to to try and connect with with more advocates, and so we wanted to create a an opportunity at this summit to just share some of what people have have done, what they've learned, their successes, their challenges and how we can kind of support each other to amplify our messages. When we're doing things like this Maybe CM resolution, for example, and other ECCC you know initiatives that they're trying to do on a provincial level how can we all kind of work together to that ship?

    Peter Ladner: 22:53

    well, that's a pretty good question and I don't think we're going to answer right away, except if you can make it. I'm speaking now to people listening. If they can make it to the conference september 11th, you can sign up at the bc cycling coalition website. Our early bird tickets for those listening to this podcast in July may still be available. Ruth, thank you so much for doing the podcast and for the work you're doing and setting an example, if I might say, for others to emulate and maybe get an AT plan in their community, maybe get an actual expanded continuous bike route network. That will light up the community and let people have fun and have more choices of how they get around other than that wonderful pickup truck that you own. Thanks, ruth.

    Ruth Lloyd: 23:45

    Oh, now I'm pegged as the pickup truck owner. Well, guess what?

    Peter Ladner: 23:48

    I own a vehicle too, so that's fine.

    Ruth Lloyd: 23:52

    Well and it's one of those things. We you know, so many of us, I think grew up riding our bikes in our neighborhoods, and you just see less and less of that in North America now, and it would be so lovely to ensure that you know younger generations are going to be able to have that choice and have that opportunity, because I think it's very transformative.

    Peter Ladner: 24:15

    We're all working on that. Thanks, Ruth.

    Ruth Lloyd: 24:17

    Thank you.

    Peter Ladner: 24:26

    You've been listening to Bike Sense, an original podcast from the BC Cycling Coalition. If you like the podcast, we'd be grateful if you could leave us a rating. On whatever platform you use, you can also subscribe, so you don't miss future episodes. If you have comments or suggestions for future episodes, email me at peterladner at bccyclingca. At peterladner at bccyclingca, you can help us amplify BC Cycling Coalition's voice by simply becoming a free member. Thank you.



Season 3 Episode 7 - The Trail Builder's Playbook: Allan Kindrat's Guide to Making Paths Possible

Transportation Engineer Allan Kindrat's groundbreaking work on the Cycle 16 multi-use path connecting Smithers and Telkwa recently earned a Gold Award from the Planning Institute of BC, recognizing two decades of persistent community advocacy finally bearing fruit.

The project represents a watershed moment for active transportation in BC. What began as a grassroots initiative championed by the Cycle 16 Trail Society has evolved into something much bigger – the first major project taken over by the Ministry of Transportation and Transit under their new Active Transportation Capital Program. With $85 million allocated across approximately 11 projects province-wide, this represents an unprecedented commitment to building dedicated cycling and pedestrian infrastructure within highway corridors. This ministerial involvement sets a promising precedent for similar initiatives across BC, including the Connect the Coast Society's efforts on the Sunshine Coast, where Kindrat now serves as project manager. Get your how-to's here!

Release Date: August 08, 2025

  • Find out more about Cycle 16 (Smithers to Telkwa) HERE

    Find out more about Sunshine Coast: Connect the Coast Trail HERE

    Visit Allan Kindrat HERE

    Learn about B.C. Active Transportation Infrastructure Grants (and find out which projects have received them) HERE


Season 3 Episode 6 - How cycling advocate Eleanor McMahon changed laws to save lives

What does it take to transform personal tragedy into meaningful policy change? Eleanor McMahon's story provides a masterclass in effective advocacy that transcends political divisions while saving lives on our roads.

After losing her husband Greg — an Ontario Provincial Police officer — to a careless driver in 2006, McMahon channeled her grief into founding the Share the Road Cycling Coalition. With her background working for two Prime Ministers and her extensive political connections, she embarked on a methodical journey to research international cycling advocacy models before creating an organization to fill the gaps she discovered in Ontario. The results have been life changing and life saving, and carry huge ramifications for cycling safety in BC.

Visit Share the Road Cycling Coalition HERE

Release Date: July 21, 2025


Season 3 Episode 5 - Turning rails into trails: Re-imagining Vancouver Island's 289-km rail corridor.

Is it all over for trains on the abandoned E&N Rail line stretching 289 kilometres along Vancouver Island?

Alastair Craighead, Chair of Friends of Rails to Trails Vancouver Island, thinks so, and is one of many people working with regional districts, municipalities, businesses and land-owning First Nations to convert these derelict tracks into a world-class trail network.

Peter Ladner talks with him about the millions of dollars already invested in planning this cycle route, and what has to happen to complete it.

Release Date: July 03, 2025

  • Check out Friends of Rails to Trains Vancouver Island HERE and be sure to watch their delightful video.

    For another view on the corridor's future, see the Island Corridor Foundation.


Season 3 Episode 4 - Balance Bikes to Bike Buses: Turning kids on to cycling, for life!

How can we transform young children into lifelong cyclists? Maya Goldstein's innovative Kids on Wheels and School Bike Bus programs teach biking to children as young as age two, and bring out as many as 60 kids at a time to ride to school together. Listen up to find out how you can get your local young'uns on wheels before car culture takes hold.

Release Date: June 17, 2025


Season 3 Episode 3 - Trials and Tribulations on the Trans-Canada Trail

What happens when 30,000 km of trail must serve hikers, cyclists and motorized users? In this episode, we sit down with Léon Lebrun, Director of Trails BC, to unpack nearly three decades of behind-the-scenes stories from the creation and evolution of the Trans Canada Trail.

From navigating conflicts between ATVs and hikers to pushing for local voices in trail management, Léon offers a candid look at the triumphs and tensions that have shaped one of the world’s longest recreational trails — and what still needs to be done in B.C.

Release Date: May 28, 2025


Season 3 Episode 2 - Electric Cargo Bikes, yours for free – from the local library!

Curious about cargo e-bikes but hesitant to invest thousands without trying one first? North Vancouver has created an elegant solution that's transforming how families approach transportation decisions. All you need is a library card to check one out.

Duncan Wilcock, co-founder of Better North Shore, joins Bike Sense to share the story behind North Vancouver's groundbreaking cargo e-bike library program.

Release Date: April 30, 2025


 Season 3 Episode 1 - The End of Bike Theft Anxiety: New insurance solutions for cyclists

Nick van Egmond, CEO of Bicycle Broker, introduces 'Sundays' — a comprehensive insurance solution designed specifically for cyclists that covers theft and damage for all types of bikes across Canada. 

Traditional home and tenant insurance typically demands a high deductible and leaves gaps in bicycle coverage. This new product provides 24/7 protection both on and off your property, with much lower deductibles. Nick also offers a few pro tips on new ways to keep your bike safe and recover a stolen bike.

Find out all about Sundays specialist bike insurance at sundaysinsurance.ca. You can also visit bicyclebroker.ca to learn more about bicycle insurance options.  

Release date: April 3, 2025


Season 2


Season 2 Episode 10 - Cycling Without Age: How trishaws are reconnecting seniors to community life

Find out how the simple act of feeling wind in your hair can transform a day of isolation into one filled with joy, connection, and even awakened memories.

Jennifer Reid, Co-Founder and Director of Vancouver Cycling Without Age Society, joins us to explore how specialized three-wheeled 'trishaws' are creating magical moments for seniors across British Columbia. What began with one bike named after Jennifer's mother has grown into a fleet of six trishaws serving 12 partner facilities throughout Vancouver, and chapters operating in 14 communities across BC. The program, which started in Denmark, now thrives in 41 countries with 3,500 chapters worldwide.

Release date: March 20, 2025


Season 2 Episode 9 - Indigenous Communities Moving Ahead with Active Transportation

Active transportation in Indigenous communities isn't just a matter of movement — it's also about culture, identity, and safety. Aaron Pete, Chawathil First Nation Councillor (and Podcaster!), shares how the Chawathil are forging partnerships to support the Coast to Canyon Trail near Hope, BC, identifying the changes necessary for safe travel within the region, and integrating traditional values into modern transportation plans.

Check out Aaron's podcast, Bigger Than Me, where he chats with leaders and change makers from across the political/cultural spectrum.

Release date: January 27, 2025


Season 2 Episode 8 - Accessibility, Equity, Fun, and Joy: E-bike subsidies can take us there

UBC Prof and Transportation Engineer Dr. Alex Bigazzi explains how e-bike rebate programs are transforming the transportation landscape in BC. Dr. Bigazzi has all the data on who gets the subsidies, how the bikes are being used, whether anyone is taking a 'free ride' on the program, and whether e-bikes are actually replacing cars ... or bikes.

Dr. Bigazzi also shares how a pioneering subsidy initiative in Saanich paved the way for broader provincial adoption, and which strategies are successfully encouraging people to swap their cars for e-bikes thereby reducing carbon emissions and improving public health.

Spoiler alert: it turns out that fun and joy are the key motivators for getting people onto bikes, and keeping them there.

Release date: December 23, 2024


Season 2 Episode 7 - Lower Speed Limits, Safer Streets: Unleashing the Power of 30 km/hr Zones in BC

What if one policy could make streets safer, communities stronger, and lives healthier? Dr. Michael Schwandt, Medical Health Officer for Vancouver Coastal Health, shares why a 30 km/h speed limit on BC's residential streets is a game-changer.

In this episode, we explore how lower speeds can significantly reduce traffic injuries and fatalities, create safer spaces for cyclists and pedestrians, and improve overall community well-being. We also tackle overlooked risks like right turns on red lights and highlight the collaboration needed between public health and local governments to make active transportation safer and more accessible.

Release date: December 01, 2024


Season 2 Episode 6 — Trailblazers Unite! Connecting the Sunshine Coast from Langdale to Lund

Tannis Braithwaite, retired lawyer and director with the Connect the Coast Society, shares her passionate advocacy for the Connect the Coast Trail — a visionary cycling project linking Vancouver Island, the Lower Mainland, and the Sunshine Coast along the Highway 101 corridor. 

Inspired by the success of Cycle 16's Smithers-to-Telkwa trail, we explore how provincial and federal support can bridge the funding gap for this ambitious project.

Explore Connect the Coast's vision HERE.

Hear the inspiration for Connect the Coast on Bike Sense's very first episode back in April 2023: From Smithers to Telkwa with Allan Cormier.

Release date: October 21, 2024


Season 2 Episode 5 — How Bike Friendly Community Awards give municipalities a boost

Subha Ramanathan, Manager of Programs and Partnerships for the Share the Road Cycling Coalition in Ontario, explains Ontario's transformative Bike Friendly Community Awards – touching on how municipalities achieve scores (The Five 'E's), how the awards boost active transportation and healthy, place-based competition among the contestants. Peter explores how we might bring this program to BC.

Release date: September 25, 2024


Season 2 Episode 4 — Salt Spring’s Crucial Bike Route Gap, and BC Transit’s Vision

An eye-opening conversation with Steve New, board member of Island Pathways and former Chief Operating Officer of BC Transit.

We explore the ambitious vision of completing the 180-kilometre Salish Sea Trail loop on Salt Spring Island's narrow roads, and dive into the role of BC Transit in enabling active transportation across B.C.

Island Pathways: improving transportation on Salt Spring Island

B.C. Transit's vision

Release date: July 29, 2024


Season 2 Episode 3 — The Dutch Cycling Revolution: Lessons for BC

Consul General for the Kingdom of the Netherlands to BC, Sebastiaan Messerschmidt, shares his firsthand experiences of growing up in a country that prioritizes cycling. From his nostalgic childhood memories of biking freely and safely to his current efforts in promoting active transportation projects globally, Sebastiaan offers a unique perspective on the transformative power of cycling-friendly infrastructure, what we can do to up our game, and where BC is getting it right.

Release date: June 06, 2024


Season 2 Episode 2 — Bike Valet! It's simple, it's cheap, it keeps your bike-baby safe

How does a fleet of cyclists lobby City Hall at a meeting where there's no bike parking? BCCC Bike Valet Grant Administrator Sam Holland explains how that bike parking gap in San Francisco in the 1970s led to an explosion of bike valet parking around North America. He explains how bike valets change the way people get to festivals, sporting events, town hall meetings and shopping destinations, including a couple who ride from Saanich to downtown Victoria to shop just because their bikes are protected by a bike valet.

Release date: May 06, 2024


Season 2 Episode 1 — That new bike-friendly intersection makes no sense

How Powell River pioneered a bike-friendly intersection design that won't completely make sense until the full bike network is built out.

Powell River Sustainability Planner Anastasia Lukyanova talks about the challenges of completing cycling infrastructure in stages. 

And the pending construction of an off-road multi-use path from the community centre to the high school. 

And how some drivers just don't get safe streets around schools.

Release date: April 10, 2024


Season 1


Season 1 Episode 9 — The City that Banned the Discussion on Bike Lanes

The City of Penticton gained infamy when its City Council tried to ban discussion of bike lanes until 2026.

A Penticton councillor's political about-face almost stopped bike lanes, but a clever amendment and determined advocates kept them going.

Matt Hopkins, Urban Cycling Director for the Penticton and Area Cycling Association, tells us how four friends and their farmers' market bike valet kick-started cycling improvements in Penticton.

And now the 6.5 km lake-to-lake route is soon to be completed.

Release date: March 05, 2024


Season 1 Episode 8New Westminster mayor Patrick Johnstone answers the $4 billion question: What would happen if the BC government spent as much on active transportation as it is does on one tunnel crossing?  Answer: Castlegar would have a full bike and pedestrian network, and New West would be Copenhagen.

Johnstone makes a passionate case for why this level of spending is needed to meet BC’s CleanBC transportation goals, which would also solve the "congestion problem". He also explains why road pricing (to finance transit and active transportation) seems to be the eternal third rail of BC politics, even though people really want bike lanes and transit -- especially the Rad e-bike moms of New West!

Release date: February 07, 2024


Season 1 Episode 7Retired UBC Prof in Occupational and Environmental Health, Kay Teschke, is dedicated to researching cycling safety and getting people on bikes. Kay joins Peter to discuss  measures and debunk misconceptions about what makes cycling truly safe. Whether it's helmet laws, safe passing distances,  bike lights, or cyclist-pedestrian conflicts — Kay's got the data and she's not afraid to use it.

Read about the BC Government's controversial Bill 23 legislation regarding safe passing distances around cyclists HERE.

Check here for a great compilation and  systematic debunking of common CYCLING FALLACIES courtesy of the  Cycling Embassy of Great Britain.

Release date: December 15, 2023


Season 1 Episode 6Peter Ladner brings in Shared Mobility Architect Sandra Phillips to connect the dots between shared transportation modes to help people get around safely and quickly, while reducing dependence on privately owned automobiles.

Movmi, her BC-based consulting firm, has worked with communities from Switzerland to Vancouver, and from Moncton NB to Portland, Nelson, Osoyoos, and New York  state — helping communities structure and finance shared cargo bikes,  e-scooters, cars, and even electric autonomous on-demand buses to enable shared mobility at every scale.

Release date: November 09, 2023


Season 1 Episode 5Peter Ladner brings in son Brendan and daughter-in-law Amanda to dish on the reality of life as a bikes-only family in Whistler, BC.  We talk ice, snow, studded tires, e-bikes,  irate drivers, singing kids, and Whistler's political will — or notable lack thereof.

Read about the Whistler Climate Action Plan at www.whistler.ca/climate-action/big-moves

Please feel free to reach out to Amanda Ladner at amandabelle@gmail.com if you'd like to talk Whistler, bikes,  or family cycling.

Release date: October 10, 2023


Season 1 Episode 4 -Kamloops Pediatrician Dr. Trent Smith is a passionate advocate for active transportation, starting with the basics: how our kids get to school.  Dr. Smith talks to Peter about the benefits of getting kids out of cars, building safe routes to school, changing cultural norms around cycling, the success of this spring's 'Drive to 5' pilot project, and how we can start moving the needle beyond major urban centres.

Read more about the City of Kamloops Safer School Streets HERE.
To exchange ideas, contact trent.smith@interiorhealth.ca

Release date: July 30, 2023


Season 1 Episode 3 -Peter Ladner talks to Matt Vader,  Director of Parks, Recreation & Culture, District of Lake Country, about the amazing 50-km Okanagan Rail Trail starting at the north end of Kalamalka Lake and ending at Okanagan Lake in downtown Kelowna.  

Okanagan Rail Trail - Where Will It Take You?  Learn why this is more than a trail, and how to celebrate and join the community spirit in giving back to this treasured amenity. okanaganrailtrail.ca

Release date: July 19, 2023


Season 1 Episode 2 - As Mayor of Tofino, Josie Osborne was a prime mover of the spectacular multi-use trail from Tofino to Ucluelet, through Pacific Rim National Park on the west coast of Vancouver Island.

Join host Peter Ladner in conversation with Josie, who talks beach bikes, goats, chickens and eggs, and which comes first: the chicken (bicycle infrastructure) or the egg (ridership)?

Release date: June 23, 2023


Season 1 Episode 1 - What does it take to build a bypass trail to facilitate active travel between two small communities along the side of a busy, Northern BC highway? Join host Peter Ladner in conversation with Allan Cormier of Smithers, BC to find out!

Release date: April 10, 2023


New podcast! - Join host Peter Ladner as he talks to guests about all things related to cycling advocacy, education, and road safety in BC. Listen to stories that can influence changes that make active transportation and mobility safer, more equitable, and more accessible, so we can meet our climate, health, social justice, tourism and economic development goals.